John Hughes: a rhinoceros, four monkeys and a super soldier (2023)

welcome summerJuan Hughes, Senior Vice President of Fan Engagement and Innovation atrhino entertainment, for this week's Hard Agree, where they discuss John's career inrhino records, his early years in the US Army, his friendship with the late Greatadam schlesinger(What do you do!), his long relationship with Sumner's favorite band,the monkeys, producingthe monkeysamazing comeback albumGood times!in 2016 and their trio of epic comics and music podcasts, before diving deep with Sumner on their favorite superhero of both: Steve Rogers AKAcaptain America.

John Hughes – Interview

André Sumner:. [00:00:00] So let's relax with a good conversation. You guys have been friends, okay?

Juan Hughes:Yes. Now that things are back to normal here, it's very strange to be back in the world, but I'm looking forward to

André Sumner:this. Yes, no, me too. Me too.

Juan Hughes:. I'm in my 12th year at Rhino and I love it. I, I, you know, not many people can say that they are doing what they dreamed of as a child. I'm one of the lucky few.

André Sumner:And I'm right in thinking that right now your title is Senior Vice President of Fan Engagement and Information.

This is correct?

Juan Hughes:Almost fan engagement and innovation, which it is. Just a fancy way, a fancy way of saying, I try to find new ways to make people stumble upon our catalog no matter where they live on the Internet or other media.

André Sumner:Yes good. Yes I know. It's, it's, it's, it's [00:01:00] a brilliant title that really reflects a lot of the things that, you know, you've led over the last few years, so welcome, Todd agrees.

I'm Andrew Sumner. I'm here with my friend John Hughes at Rhino Entertainment, and John has had a fascinating career and, like me, he's a huge comic book fan as well as a firebrand in the recording industry.

and has been heavily involved with one of my all-time favorite bands for the past decade. Oh, which we'll talk about in a moment. Yes right. And if you were watching the video of that, you would see a series of beautiful shots behind John and his office. Ah, because John was one of the main people who made the last two Monkey albums happen.

The good times, awarded and much loved. And then the Monkey Christmas album too,

Juan Hughes:it's always the [00:02:00] award-winning and highly praised, good times and Christmas cards.

André Sumner:But before we get to that good stuff, John, how come you have a fascinating professional history that originally starts with my bio, right?

Juan Hughes:Yes. A small town west of Cleveland or, sorry. Yes. West Cleveland called Elyria, Ohio.

André Sumner:Yes. And you started in the army, right? Crazy.

Juan Hughes:Aleria was a great place to grow up as a kid. It wasn't a great place to stay as an adult. So I wanted to leave anyway. I could. And three friends of mine were joining the military, the United States Army, and I was watching them from a distance. And one day I said, you know what, I'll go with you to the recruiter and see what happens.

And I'm checking to see if they had a great job book. It was almost like a catalog, you know, flip through it and pick your dream job and I'm looking at it, [00:03:00] and one of them is a broadcast newspaper. And I said to the guy, it was like, you know, the movie, Good morning, Vietnam, like literally being a journalist.

He says, oh, it's even more than that. You're out in the field recording stories and you come back. You are learning to edit your work while presenting news on television and radio. You're also the DJ on a four-hour shift at the radio station. I'm like, wait, okay. I want to do that. And the guy says, no, no, no, no, you should go psychopaths.

That's like, I was like, no, I really want to want to do this. Yes. And he said, well, it's really hard. You have to take a test. We never got anyone accepted. But let's give it a chance. So he had to ask her for an audition script. The defense information school came, asked me to sit in the room with me with a tape recorder and a microphone.

And watch me read the script. I couldn't take it with me or, you know, it was like a cold read. [00:04:00] And they send it after three weeks, it arrives, it says, I'm shocked. you walked in I'm like, wow. We will. Yes. So now I think I have to do this. So I joined the military and it's probably the best thing I've ever done.

Yes. I can't believe I'm looking back now. I `m 53 years old. I can't believe I did this. What the hell was I thinking? But I did and got to see the world. I spent most of my time in South Korea and it was also a four-door when it opened in Monterey, California. Yes. And I did everything they said on the tin. I did television.

I did radio. I learned to edit. I can direct a TV show. If you put me in front of a control room, I can do all of that. So, well, now I've probably forgotten a lot of things, but it goes a long way to say that's how I got into media. I left, got my communications degree, started working at Hayden Radio. He got into advertising and became a copywriter [00:05:00] and did that for a couple of years, moved to California and got hired by a company here.

I got transferred to California, which was probably the second best day of my life. Yes. I'm here and it's strange, a strange fate that I kept getting recruited by different companies until one day I was in guests, the clothing manufacturer doing his e-commerce. I like to joke that it was ugly.

Betty, if you know this show. Yes. Yes. He was surrounded by beautiful people and he was like the bald white guy, like, well, let's do this. And I saw a job posting on Yahoo Hot Jobs. If anyone remembers this, I'll take you back. And it was in Rhino and I saw it and I, I love telling this story and I cut myself.

It takes a long time here. I want to hear, this is the best story I've seen work. I didn't apply. I picked up the phone and arrived at the center [00:06:00] and said, I googled who was responsible for the department at the time. And I said, I'm calling, you know, Joe Smith. And the receptionist said, well, who is it?

And I said, this is John Hughes from the guests. And they passed right by me. They didn't ask why, or just listened to the guests. And they were like, oh shit. And I called the guy and I told him the story that I told them that pretty much burned out my resume. And I said, give me 10 minutes with you and you can stop looking for a job.

I mean, he was cocky, really cocky because he knew he had the technical stuff they were looking for in terms of e-commerce and he had the musical knowledge and those two things don't necessarily go together. And they brought me in for an hour-long interview that turned into eight hours. No lunch, no [00:07:00] bathroom break, no water supply.

I was like, is this a test? But I think what sealed the deal was during one of the, I think I was interviewed by several different departments and during one of the departments they asked me, you know, what are your favorite rhino artists? Under the duel catalogue. And I said, well, you know, it's probably not my favorite, but one that I really liked and I don't think that's enough.

Respect is Joe Bryan. I cast Joe Bryan and that's what I think they really hired me for.

André Sumner:a plate. This is what it proves. So now, just to backtrack on something, you touched on the, you in the middle of this in the middle of the anecdote you, you refer to yourself as bald white goats of course you're not doing it justice because if you already know, John, here he is, what you know about me is that he is a very muscular, very well built, big man.

Now my question is, does this, does this, does this come from your army days? Is it something you got yourself into?

Juan Hughes:That's like guessing, right? I didn't do shit in the army [00:08:00]. I was 19 years old and weighed 125 pounds soaking wet. I would get up in the morning and do physical training, the bare minimum. I skated for four years.

I didn't do anything, I didn't really get to work. So I was 25 and out of the military. And to be honest, I started working out because I was gay and I wanted to attract what I wanted. What I liked.

André Sumner:Yes. It makes perfect sense. makes complete

Juan Hughes:vanity. That's it

André Sumner:the reason.

And you are also a thousand percent successful. Right man. Yes, I got married. And you and your husband are an extremely handsome guy, you know, so, you know.

Juan Hughes:Yes. I like to think so. Yes.

André Sumner:Thanks. Yes. Yes. So, buddy, so what? When did I go? What year are we talking about when you teamed up with Ryan?

Juan Hughes:2009, September 2009, September 29, 2009.

[00:09:00] I loved that day because they act so happy here.

André Sumner:Yes. Yes. And I, I want to, I want to talk very specifically about monkeys in a second, but outside, outside of your relationship with monkeys and all the things you've done with them, who are the artists other than you? I enjoyed working with most of which you are most proud of your association at the time,

Juan Hughes:The Only Thankful Dead just amazing, a band that I knew, you know, being a little punk rocker, a new wave synth pop guy, I was like, oh, the Thankful Dead.

That's a little, that's the enemy. For nothing. Things really changed for me when I went to the 4th of July 50th anniversary show in Chicago with a bunch of people from work. And that is, you know, when you see them. That's when you get it. It's kind of sad that, you know, the whole team and Jerry and everybody is not with us anymore, but something clicked.

It has not been chemically enhanced. It just clicked for me. [00:10:00] And the cars, of course, I had the real pleasure of working closely with Rico Cassick on the reissues that we did. Ha, I like to think we finally put them in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame because that was right after we did the reissues and we don't get credit for it, but I like to wait.

It was amazing that Zeplin, you know, didn't have a lot of face-to-face interaction with the band as mysterious as they are. I come to believe that they must always keep this mystery about themselves, but, you know, you get to work with one of the greatest bands in rock history.

Wow. I still wake up and pinch myself.

André Sumner:Yes. I mean, it must, it must be really awesome to be honest. I mean, you know, working with Zeplin, I think it's like working with Sinatra, right? You know, it's, it's you, when you arrive there are icons and there are icons and another level. Yes. And I, that level of mystery that you've touched on, I think that's an amazing and incredibly important [00:11:00] part of your appeal.

You don't want these guys to be approachable and just see them everywhere, talking. But you

Juan Hughes:I know, I think there are levels of accessibility. I love the Robert Plant podcast. I think that's great. I, Jimmy, went off and did other stuff and like, you know, Q&A, okay. I liked the fact that they just, they, they, keep us pigeonholed, honestly, you know, it's like, no, you're not going to make this up and make 5,000 greatest hits compilations.

And it keeps that mystique of that band alive. And it's excellent. I would have liked to have worked with them more. I don't work with them much. As I used to because of my new role, but I love having any kind of association with them.

André Sumner:Yes I can, I can totally understand. And how did their long, close, and fruitless association with apes come about?

Juan Hughes:It was a period before I started rhino, I call myself [00:12:00] 1.5 generation of a monkey. You have a 1.0, which was seen when it aired in the sixties, so you have a 1.5

André Sumner:that's like me. I have to say, you know, I'm old enough to be in the original sixties. Wow. After

Juan Hughes:It was in 1.5, that is, it was in distribution here in the 70s, early 70s.

And that's when I became a fan. The first record my Aunt Judy gave me and a shout out to Aunt Judy was the first Apes album. He gave me his worn copy from the sixties and I loved it. You know, I always jumped, I'm going to buy a dog, Alice, even as a kid, I couldn't give him that song.


Yes, the restaurant is great. And then when I got to rhino, Andrew Sandoval was, he was still in rhino when I started. And, you know, I went straight to his office and just... And I told them how much I love what he did for the band [00:13:00] and how great it was. And then, when Andrew left, there was no one to pick him up.

And then I started playing drums and doing stuff and it went a long way towards bringing everyone back because, you know, Davey was Davey. Nez really loosened up at that point. I think the turning point for me and overalls was when we did the super-luxury edition of Head.

I just don't know if you remember Google plus G plus Nez had a G plus account. So I sent him a random DM one day and said, I got this, we did this. I would love to send you a copy. And he answered. It was like this long letter. like no one talks to me. I'm so glad you got in touch with me. I would love a copy.

And I called him up and did an interview with him for an early version of the rhino podcasts at the time. And that door opened and [00:14:00] then started a communication with Peter and then Mickey, who is the best. I love that man. And I, you know, I'm not that busy, but we're friends now. It's not even work.

We're actually friends and we like to have dinner, drinks and such. And I'm pinching five-year-old John constantly like, you know, stop being a fan. Boy, just treat them. I'm human. Treat them like humans, do it. As soon as. And then the 50th anniversary came and I, and I walked into our president, Mark Pincus, in his office, and I said, Mark, it's the 50th anniversary of the monkey.

We have to make a new monkey record. And he said, okay, when do we start? I was like, wow. We will. I didn't expect that reaction. But then I, I had this crazy idea. I love Fountains of Wayne, one of my favorite bands of all time. And I heard this song, you know, the DJ said it must be summer. And I always thought [00:15:00] that's a monkey song that's a monkey song.

You should have Adam Schlesinger produce a record for the monkeys. So I just put him in touch with one of mine, a great co-worker, Suzanne, who knew him from his Atlantic days. Y. I called him and invited him to a meeting. He says, I'm in, when do we meet the band? And it was amazing. And I just want to take a second to remember Adam, because we became best friends after that.

And he passed away on April 1st really

André Sumner:early, soon passed away due to COVID, right.

Juan Hughes:It was really, we didn't know what was going on. That's when he got sick in March at the end of February, even he texted me saying Hey, I have this cough that won't go away. I might have to go see someone and then everything would go downhill so fast that no one would know what was going on.

And yes, I wish you were here today. If I'd held out the other month, you know, I might have had one of those [00:16:00] experimental treatments, but it was really, yeah.

André Sumner:It's a heartbreaking tragedy and, you know, he's such a talented guy. I mean, he was a very close friend of his. Me, I'm a huge fan of him for, for, for everything he's done. Wayne fantasizes about what you've done together.

And being taken like that must have been very difficult for all of you.

Juan Hughes:He would have been impressed with the reaction. He never doubted himself. He never doubted his talent. He was very adamant about its value, which was amazing. And I learned from him about that, but he was also kind of self-deprecating like, Hey, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a two thousand wonderful success, you know?

But he wasn't, he was, he was so talented and for me, if anything made that horrible experience better, it was seeing the flood of [00:17:00] reactions to his death. I was really good.

André Sumner:Yes. I mean, I mean, yeah, I think that's the silver lining to, if ever there was one, so many wonderful people pass through the world and their death is relatively scarred by people other than their close friends.

But, I mean, he really left a legacy in a way that must be a huge blessing to family and friends, to be around when that happens, you know, and his life definitely had purpose and meaning. .

Juan Hughes:It changed my life completely. And although the nice thing about it is that I'm one of a hundred people who can say it's not just me.

It touched so many people and changed so many people and we miss them.

André Sumner:Yes. Well, well separately, well, well, CertainTeed when it comes to the album you're working on together, could you talk a little bit about why you've just recruited such an incredible lineup of talent to write on this album? [00:18:00] And I think one of the reasons why I want to say, I'm a huge monkey fan, as you know, but I would say both within the fandom and outside of it, it's a little broad. , widely regarded as one of the Apes' best albums.

You know, it's an incredible achievement, really, you know, given the fact that you rode it long after hay day and long after, because what always surprises me about people who are just casual monkey fans. it's like not many people know how big he is. The richness of recorded material really is.

And, you know, what's really there and how much value do monkey albums have? You know, I mean, I mean, the things that really interest me are, from headquarters onwards, you know, and and, and all that, you know, I like a lot of fans, but I, I'm, I'm hopeful , but I also really enjoy playing, say, all the country tracks from NERRS to my friends who have muses, who don't even know these things [00:19:00] exist.

And they go, oh wow, what is that? This is incredible. It's the monkeys' friend, you know, it's, it's, you know, and it might be Mike Nesmith in a recording studio waiting for his contract, but it's the monkeys anyway. Right. But when, to move on to what, what I wanted to ask you about, how did you put it all together with these amazing, these amazing songwriters, what was the process there?

Juan Hughes:I wish I could say there was a great master plan and I sat down and it was, you know, Makaveli in it, and I was very specific about who I contacted. For nothing. The sad truth is, he had a few people in mind. Adam had a few people in mind and we started, I think we underestimated ourselves at first.

We started small. We were asking beloved but still independent bands like Rogue Wave, for example, to contribute songs and [00:20:00] they did, and they were great. Zack from Roadway contributed Terror, which is a brilliant song that should have been on the album. They rejected me on that.

But it ended up becoming a B-side, at least it got out in the world, but this song should have been on the album, but we did, it worked out very well. And then we go from there to, you know, a wider net and just test it out. And Adam knew the manager of Weezer and Rivers and he asked Rivers Cuomo. And he said, sure, send us seven songs, you know, the guiding machine.

And that really cheered us up a little bit. Okay, come on, let's start aiming higher. And I was like, I know, you know, and Andy Partridge through my friend Jason Day here at Rhino, let's ask Andy Partridge. And I think Andrew Sanibel also knew who he was, and he asked the question and the partners lost their minds.

He puts on a huge monkey span. He took a photo of Nikki for a monkey fanzine when he was a kid [00:21:00] and sent me the scan. He contributed at least eight songs, I think at one point. We had it, we reduced it to one, and again, a suit. Now we have a bunch of names behind us and we can start distributing them to other people.

So Adam didn't know Gallagher for some random reason. I threw him a note that said: Hey, these guys contributed. Do you have something inside? No, I think I saw the email. I was super ticklish. By the appearance of the monkeys, asking him for a song. It was almost like a joke. But he loved it and said, well, you know, I have this kind of song finished in three quarters.

I was working with my friend Paul Weller. Yes please. And he shipped this, and that was the birth of an accidental hipster, which is our big mental psychedelic moment on the record. It was perfect. And we continued. The Nez had a great song [00:22:00] called I Know What I Know that was very different, very different in demo form.

Adam actually stripped him and made this arrangement. That was very remarkable. Seriously, Peter had a lot of things, but the one that appealed to us the most was the girl, who he really let go of.

André Sumner:When, when did you write this? when you grew up

Juan Hughes:And it was, it was written for, he thought, oh, I want to be free.

It's kind of a David Davey song. And that is, that was mine. My biggest regret is that I wish Mickey would write more. He doesn't think of himself as a writer, which I think is a shame because he writes things that I think the fact that he doesn't think of himself as a writer encourages him to be so different. Nobody else is going to write a song like Shorty Blackwell.

André Sumner:Yes. No, absolutely not. I do not agree. I remember, I remember reading Peter talk [00:23:00] a few times talking about, you know, his kind of dismay for lack of a better word than, that Mickey didn't write anymore and, you know, the Dolan songs are so unusual, you know, having, as you say, shorty black was a great example.

You know, me, mom and dad, for example, he has to write this

Juan Hughes:outside. You can take wow. lust

André Sumner:Explorers. Oh man. I mean, you know, I'm on one side, I don't love that song, you know, yeah, I mean, I don't know anybody that doesn't love that song. It's incredible work. it's dan

Juan Hughes:small and is analyzing what is happening here.

And so I locked him in a room with Adam at one point, actually they went, I think they went to Mulholland and they just sat together and tried to write a song, looking out over the Hollywood Hills. And that's where I was there. And they told me I had a good time, so, you know, Nikki's catchphrase [00:24:00] and she uses it in every interview.

And he knows it, yes. I mean, I wanted to have fun with it.

André Sumner:Yeah, I think as a listener, I think what they've got right with this album is that it's, it's, I think it's an hour of joy exercise. That's how I would describe it. And, but it doesn't seem to, shall we say, bring it all together, or just us, which, you know, essentially feels like a very pale lack of the overalls that you have at the very heart of what the band is about.

And I think you'll improve on that, understand

Juan Hughes:it's in the title at the time. That was the mission statement. And it was, we don't want it to feel like the sixties. We don't want it to look eighty. We don't want it to sound like 2016. We want it to be timeless. So timeless was the keyword and good times was the mission statement.

And, you know, people say, I wish there were more ballads and that [00:25:00] wasn't the point. Pardon. And we, very Andrew, came across her. I mean, we had four weeks to make the album. We had, we had committed. I don't know if you remember the timeline. The album was on Amazon and was the number one album on Amazon.

Before we had recorded a single note. We made it so far back. We announce it. We were too excited. We welcome pre-orders. And then we got so big in America. It's a big deal on CBS on Sunday mornings. And if the play was on Memorial Day weekend, then we had to release the album on May 27th against all odds to do that interview.

And I think there were good things, mostly good about the deadline pressure and some bad things. Some bad things is you have someone like Michael Nesmith. Affectionate, a perfectionist, and once things are done, the famous [00:26:00] quote I'll never forget is John. Deadlines are not physical.

Oh. We will. At first I was like, what? Hey? I understand what you are saying. It was like, why are we racing when this is art? And he had, he was right. But you know, trade sometimes beats us. That made me Johnny Kirshner in no time.

And I, you know, I don't like that, but I like my job. As soon as,

André Sumner:If I catch a fish during wool time, that's it.

Juan Hughes:No, no, not at all, none of that. And I don't think he would ever do that. I, I worry a lot about him. And I like to think that we're friends too. And it was, I understand what he was saying. I understand his, my name is on it but it's not in bold with my picture on the cover, his name is on it and he will live with it [00:27:00] forever.

So if you're not happy about something, you're not going to be happy about it, period. Yes. A good part of this deadline pressure forces us to move. We couldn't waste time. We couldn't look at the navel. It had to be done. There are mixes, I think it could be better. Clear. But I'll tell you how the guy who was literally sitting in an office chair like this one over Adam Slessinger's shoulder in his New York lofts watching him mix because at night at two-thirty in the morning, because we had to do a domain within three days, it had to be done.

André Sumner:Yes. Yes, no, I do, and I'm fascinated by how often great works of art come out of those time-pressed deadlines, be it movies or records. I mean, sometimes the opposite is true of course, but definitely you and Adam Ha and the band together had this lightning in a bottle moment where he put together something [00:28:00] extraordinary and and and to look at the comments you has, not just long-time fans like me, I can show that we are an important audience, but you know, to, to see, you know, as you know, I used to be a music journalist to see professionals often apes resistant to music journalists, really embracing what must have been an amazing album.

we have one

Juan Hughes:Rolling Stone's review of the feature completely destroyed the entire concept for decades. We have mojo. We are uncut. We have all these really stellar reviews. And it was a shock. It was almost as shocking a shock as debuting at number 14 on the top 200 chart. I was, I was praying for the top 50.

I'm like, yeah, top 50. They're going to have their first top 50 album in, you know, whatever it's been 30 years or whatever. No, the top 20 is so close to the top 10. If they hadn't recently changed the charts to [00:29:00] reflect streaming, we'd probably be fifth or sixth.

André Sumner:Yes, good, good. In such a beautifully justified result.

And as you remember, John, I used to be the editor of Uncut magazine. And the rudeness issue isn't necessarily one of the big secrets, but something people might not know unless they're talking to someone who worked at the magazine for a long time, like I did.

Everyone is a monkey fan. So, I guess I wasn't at the magazine anymore when they were working, when they were, and I was working with you on some other stuff, actually. But, but when, when they must have done it, I can imagine what it was like and the offices. Because I can imagine when it dropped, when I started, when you started, I think I heard the first tracks to be honest, in your office.

And, and that kind of arc in what I think, I think the album succeeds on a lot of levels and I think you. And Adam and the guys [00:30:00], you know, rightly so, I got all the applause for that. And it's an amazing achievement, but I think as great as the record is, and as much of a point in time as the record was, I think the other thing that you guys really accomplished is.

Producing one of the top five ape songs of all time in 2016, which is men, the lane, which I think was an incredibly spectral moment of all beauty. And I first heard it in his office and I was, I was blown away and I'm still blown away by it. now this

Juan Hughes:It was interesting. A friend of mine at work, Brian Hay, knew Ben Gifford's manager and I thought, Ooh, this could be interesting.

So we emailed him and Ben Gilbert, again, the monkey stretches, he looked up, it was like picking up a rock and seeing the ball go straight out. It was a big bunch of monkeys and he sent us the demo [00:31:00]. And I don't know if you've heard the demo yet. He released it himself a few years ago, but it's very synthetic.

It has feeds, it's part-time, it's great. And I heard that and I thought, this could be interesting. But, and I sat down with him. Yes. And I played it to myself and said, I don't understand. And I said, let it be a country song for now. And he goes, Ooh. So I thought, NAS needs a country showcase.

And the curious thing is Nez, his musical tastes. Now he, I don't want to assume, but I'm going anyway. I probably would have preferred the synthesized approach. And that's what I, that's what I don't want to do. John. I want to do stuff like that. I don't, my dad is really bad. But we did this rural thing and you know, they've mentioned it in interviews.

There was a battle between Mickey and Nez over this song. Like, I want to sing. I want to see, you know, it was for me, not for one another. So I thought, why not you? Yes. [00:32:00] So we made it more like a mic showcase. There's a solo part, but then Adam said, I don't know. I have this country version. I see it as a bird saw it.

So Magdalena and I are on version two, let's go ahead and cut that. And then Adam and I got in the ring, we had 10 rounds. One of us emerged victorious. I'll let you decide who it was based on which version ended up.

André Sumner:on the album Well I Think Honestly It Was the Only Option. I mean, I liked version two and I also liked the demo, which I also listened to, but I think the album version is pretty diverse and should be out there.

And it is that it gives them a great account of it. As soon as

Juan Hughes:yeah if we put the birds version on the album it would have just been mixed because there are a lot of midtempo songs on that album. Many Gigli guitar songs on that record. We needed some texture. We needed to slow things down a bit.

We needed to take a break before we got into that. Psychobilly freaks out [00:33:00]. To mean. Birth of an accidental story. I agree.

André Sumner:I also agree with your choice and your choice, of course, traveled the world because that song was kind of a, a. On a great trip. The alienated, original album seems to me, from my point of view,

Juan Hughes:it was now the third most played monkey song, right behind.

i am a believer in

André Sumner:degree believer. Right. You know that? I, I, am very happy to hear that. And I think I totally believe without knowing it, hey, I like it because it serves to emphasize my point. I'm B, that doesn't surprise me at all, John. I mean, I think it's really a special piece of music, which is how you should feel too.

And that, you know, I think one of the beauties of talking about your career at Rhino is that it's made up of these moments that, if you took them one by one, you'd be like, wow, man. Even if it was just that, it would be great. But you [00:34:00] kind of monkeys are like an embarrassment of wondrous riches.

it's not like this? You know, you have the fact that we're talking about good times, but we're also talking about men, Magdalena. That must be very special. Yes.

Juan Hughes:He is five years old at this point. Do you believe that?

André Sumner:This is amazing. I think that's amazing.

Juan Hughes:And it still sells IB.

Because you know, I, I, I had an ego, I'll get it back. I look at the sales numbers every few weeks. I'm like, it's still moving. We will. And you know, I'm, in a way, I feel like the quarterback of the football team, you know, 10 years after the reunion, looking back wistfully and saying that was the highlight of my life.

Now it's all over. But no, I think you said lightning in a bottle, which is how Mickey always describes monkey-throwing. That album was the same and will never be replicated. I mean, we lost Peter. We [00:35:00] lost Adam. It's just, you know, trying to replicate it in some aspect with the Christmas party was an attempt.

I'm not embarrassed about it. I'm not proud of it, as I'm good at differences. And I'll be very honest with you and your listeners. The difference between the good times and the Christmas party was a lot of money. Waving, good times left us alone and it was like, we trust you, do it, make it happen.

Christmas party. It was okay. You did it last time. What are we going to do this time? And how are we going to do this? Everything is fine. I need to hear this. Do not. We have to have a song that is relevant to the UK. We will. What is like a magician I wish it were Christmas every day locked in the disc. You know that, and I understand.

We're a commercial company and we've got stuff to do, but man, the difference between the two is kind of impressive, but I'll defend the Christmas party a little bit. Thanks to the aforementioned Michael Nesmith, who [00:36:00] gained freedom, which is again the key word here. Just go out and make two tracks completely by yourself with your kids.

And Snowfall is one of the best tracks on that album. And he says, I want to cover a blizzard. And I'm like, and I made him laugh. Because I said Manhattan transfer music. It was like, you know, John, this song is a little older than this.

That was my only point of reference was the transfer version of Manhattan. But, you know, again, because he had the freedom to do whatever he wanted. It came out better.

André Sumner:Yes. And it's, it's, it's a very, very beautiful performance. And so personally, I think I really love the way a gingerbread breaks.

I love this song but

Juan Hughes:again, Adam wrote it. That was the first track we worked on with Mickey and we were on our own. There were people who hated that song, why don't I [00:37:00] understand? Why isn't it a Christmas song? Where are the sleigh bells? Do you know? And I, and at that moment I managed to dodge them a little.

And we got this as a result. I'm not saying that I have all the answers and that no one else can make a good contribution. It was like, it was, I'll be honest. It was crushing in spots where it felt like I was being hit from all sides.

André Sumner:And well played boss to get through it and get to the other side.

And at least, you know, from a marketing release sort of perspective, the beats of a Christmas album, right? It can be a hardy perennial. So, you know, it's not just about one season. Yes.

Juan Hughes:Yes. It's well done. And you know, as you said, how gingerbread breaks. I heard this song in August and it's a great song, you know, and again, it's bittersweet because you're like, wow, Adam.

those things on it. And again, another great story from Adam about how he knows everyone in the universe. It's like, you know, John Michael Shabaab, the guy who wrote what is that comic?

André Sumner:related to the book, [00:38:00] the incredible adventures of the covenant of calvio clay.

Yes yes.

Juan Hughes:escapist. Yes. And he's like, he's a monkey. He is also a fan of Wayne. I'll see if you want to write the lyrics for the song. So Adam sends Chavon a random email and we follow up on the lyrics. From Michael Shabani, you know, this is an award-winning writer at Christmas, a treat.

So it was really cool.

André Sumner:I, I, I think my final two types of questions, what class topics for discussion are actually someone went on to report on a weaving of the related monkeys? So I'll ask you this first. Again, as a fan, I feel you also have a beautiful epitaph for Peter on this album, which has gained some kind of special resonance.

I think once Peter stopped listening to that version of the angels, we heard it over the top, it's really pretty, you know, which didn't really appeal to me when I first heard it. But, you know, once, once [00:39:00] events took shape, they did. That's how I feel about it.

Juan Hughes:That's everyone's reaction to listening.

And they say, why don't I understand this shared voice? And when they find out how it was imported, it's not under the circumstances. They're like, wait, you know, it's actually kind of a theory. And that's what we were looking for. Peter was really, really sick at the time, to the point where we thought, you know, we might have to do this without him.

And he didn't want to, we left it in his hands. Here are some things. If you feel it, great. If you're not ready, we understand that he dragged himself into the recording studio one day between treatments and did that voice. And I was exhausted. It cost him a lot. And you know, it wasn't right after that when the album came out and, you know, I think it was two months after we lost it.

So I'm really happy that he had the strength of [00:40:00] to do that. And it's, it's something that, you know, at the time people were confused by it. It was a very, very well kept secret about his illness and how serious it was. But then I think afterward, you heard it and thought, wow, this is really magical.

André Sumner:Yes, no, I think that's correct. And the other thing you mentioned involving Michael Siobhan is the comic book connections to the Christmas party. Because it's, it's, it's the cover, right?

Juan Hughes:It started with good times. Remember the video where she makes me laugh. My personal collection of Dell monkey comics.

And I, I, they're, you know, they're bragging, you know, I didn't get my mint copy plates, those get slapped. And I took them and I brought them into our scanner and I scanned a bunch of guys with a very talented creative director. We took her name Jocelyn Lane and [00:41:00] we made this lyric video, I think it cost $500 and now it has over a million views.

And that's why I've always had this common bond in what I do. I, I talent borrows genius steals. So I'm constantly stealing ideas from my collecting world to incorporate into the musical work. Now I am working on NFT. NFCS, I'm using my knowledge of collection and comics and variants and that's fine. You have to have that different cover.

I do a lot of covers on all my releases. I don't know if you noticed that. Yes. So he. Christmas party comes up and I, I'm looking at his art with references to monkeys, like, I have to get two people to do this album cover, either Alex Ross or Michael, all red and Alex Ross, you know, did a small elevator. , the graphics [00:42:00] and so on, which turned out beautifully.

I didn't understand your emotion. Michael, all red, just freaked out and sent me away, I had no contract or salary or anything with him. And he sent me a fully rendered pencil drawing. I would say it's a rough concept, far from a raw album. And I was like, this doesn't change anything.

I mean, all the Easter eggs were already there. His knowledge of his apes is second to none, except perhaps understandable. And I was like, wow, Mike, great job. So we used that artwork for the lyric video as well. I don't remember the name of the song, but it's the same song. Rivers Cuomo song about Sandra What Would Santa Do?

That's it? Yes. And so it was, it was really good. And the common book thing is really important to me because [00:43:00] I've always been inspired by my face. Superheroes, you know, Captain America, my all-time favorite when I joined the military, hey, this is going to sound so silly as a role model. I thought I was doing what Steve Rogers would do.

I mean, I literally thought of Captain America when he was raising his hand, taking the oath, enlisting yes. I felt like it was 1941 and I was the skinny kid who volunteered because of Pearl Harbor, you know, the peace sign, but still the thought was there. So if. It influenced my life a lot.

André Sumner:Yes. I mean, this, this, this is a connection that you and I have that we've mentioned before, given the fact that I'm probably 10 years older than you. And I'm an Englishman on the mosey side. My favorite comic, the character beyond the shadow of it too. Captain America seriously?

I do, but little by little, and it has a lot to do with the fact that this is a story I've told a lot, so I'll summarize well, [00:44:00] but my grandfather Seems fought with an American unit and the Second World War. And he came back from World War II with a great love for America, Americans and American popular culture.

And it's mostly because he used it with an American regiment and lived on American rations, which were much better than British rations. He would get his rations, which would be like steak and all that kind of stuff. You know, although essentially British rations at the time, after the Nazis cut supply lines for so long, they were essentially cardboard.

Yes, I ate very well, but I also smoked two cigarettes a day, a Hershey bar, and a comic book. So he came back from World War II with a bunch of Captain American comics with a mug, with a bunch of Human Torch comics. So when I was a kid and I was six. I had a chronic clientele for years when I was in the hospital.

This is a classic comic book fan story, right? Pops took his comics to a hospital and the first comic book he bought me was Batman 1 [00:45:00] 8, 4. And that was when I was three. And, you know, like a lifelong sidekick obsession was born, but because of the transformation, the particularly sharp transformation from skinny to Captain America.

And when I really started reading Captain America, I was in the first few stories to impress Lynn Kirby here, you know, readings of that character, you know? Yeah, right in the first WWII exploits now, where they were after we introduced them, they went back in time and they had a bunch of buckets and sales and stuff.

Yep, that really sets up a great Ive. I've loved Captain America ever since. And I loved the whole WWII connection because. It is one of three lines with my grandfather.

Juan Hughes:It's funny how you say Kirby brought you because Kirby brought me. I really did, the first comic I found was a tattered copy of Captain America, 154 in the playground and he's hiding and why are there two of them?

And I don't understand. It's like the conclusion of [00:46:00] like this long Steve angle, tough story, but a five-year-old me is like, I can keep up, but I got really hooked when Kirby came back.

André Sumner:at the. So, the age of Matt Baum. Yes.

Juan Hughes:I don't use it today. If I were, where am I? Crazy bomb shirt. My all-time favorite cover since I can remember 192 was like a Frank Robbins theme and the ending.

I don't know if you know the end of that number. There's a big third panel at the bottom that says King Kirby from the next issue is back and I'm like, what are the curves of a king and why should I be excited? Boy did I hear?

André Sumner:Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, I, I really loved that it sold out and it was at that point, I mean, I read that I had bought those numbers on the fly and because I, I really took it.

It's funny, my, my, my Captain America buying habits went in waves and obviously I was a fan of the stuff I actually built. My month-to-month reading habits were with Angle Heart Cell's December stuff. Right. Yes. [00:47:00] And I loved the insanity of that Kirby arc, like a lot of what he was doing at the time.

It was because in the last few columns, which you can tell now that you look at them, they're partially assembled by the bullpen and Stanley, you know, everything was designed, everything was full of complaints. Right. Do you know what I mean? But I taught. I thought it was glorious and it's crazy. You know, this is what I love to do.

Juan Hughes:As a kid, I think I was probably seven or eight at the time. The consensus on the playground was along with the column of letters, he's drawing, we call him square because he draws square spikes and wavy lines on his knees. People didn't understand. I did not understand. But something drew me.

It was almost primitive. You know, and then I, as much as I complained about his art, [00:48:00] bought Eternals. Bought as Panther. I bought everything he did in Morrow, that '70s Marvel, that curvy '70s Marvin that's so despised. Sometimes those are my things Cousin, man, machine, man.

André Sumner:Yes man. Yeah, yeah, it's a great era. And speaking of braking, speaking back then, I wonder if, given your military background, you ever did it? The era immediately before that, the end of Kirby's DC era. Were you a fan of these things?

Juan Hughes:No, I didn't gain new gods.

I try to read it over and over again, and I don't understand the dialogue and it's like, you know, the typical Kirby critique is affected. I wouldn't say it's forced. I would say they speak like gods and we are not used to hearing the speed of God. That's the adult me ​​as KV, I don't know.

I don't care What is a Steppenwolf [00:49:00] and command. It was like a children's book and I'm using quotes here and I'm, you know, I may be a kid, but I'm not a kid. I'm not reading this. Demon was scary. I don't understand any of this. So the one DC book where Kirby did this for some odd reason appealed to me. I asked a kid who was Justice Inc.

The Avenger. Oh

André Sumner:Yes. Right. It's actually a, it's a, a great book, a great book. And of course, most of Kirby's problems aren't even on the covers, they're Joe Cubit's covers. Right. But yeah, I loved it too. It's actually a very, very capable adaptation of the Avenger series.

It's very well done. Do you know what I mean? It's actually telescopic downwards. and dunwell

Juan Hughes:you look back at that late time when he was just doing time in DC, where, you know, he's just given up on doing his own thing and he's doing [00:50:00] things like Justice, Inc. He made Richard's dragon act eat food and you go, wow, he has to, he has to be miserable.

Being just a robot, a pencil

André Sumner:robot. But it feels so good, but I want it, you know what? I couldn't agree more. And the reason I was asking was, he was just mentioning his military background in a series that I love is his 12 issues about our fighting forces. When he takes on losers. This is one of the best Cobra books ever.

Juan Hughes:I didn't know when I had no idea. I don't, I don't read any more books, you know, whatever, I put them on the shelf. As an adult, a young adult in my twenties, I found that he made our fighting strengths and I thought, I have to forget about him. My all-time favorite artist, and I don't have that, I have to get a career out of our combat forces and it's a tough career to live with.

André Sumner:Very, very hard to get. Yes.

Juan Hughes:But I have. And just these personal stories that obviously some things are based on [00:51:00] his experience experience and some things are just crazy Kirby stuff, like the Brocket Panama comic, fat. You know, I love it. I wish it had been more Mike Royer, less deep Bruce Barrett.

Yes, me,

André Sumner:I can, I'm so with you, I'm so with you, I think it reports, Berry is not well. Go. It's certainly not the worst CA in the Caribbean, but I mean Mike Rose, the man in terms of bringing that propulsive Kirby beauty to the page, you just have to like it, feel like you're getting to Kirby's plate. but i wasn't

Juan Hughes:brush fear

I wasn't afraid of the heavy line. Oh, you don't like the heavy line. Yes. Yes. Barry is more like, I'll track this.

even if.

André Sumner:Yes of course. Yes, exact. I think you really brought out what works with Losers because while it's a crazy Xtreme Kirby, it's also very much Jack's experience of being in the military, you know?

And the thing is, I read a lot of war books mainly because. My, my biggest pop, the next Munich service bought me [00:52:00] a lot of my comics. I would buy all women that, that west. So I have very long runs from Sergeant Rock and our combat and geocombat forces with the horn to tackle these books.

And in that moment I remember the same thing happened to the losers, the standard loses funding, which Canada used for the script and John Severing's beautiful art, which looks amazing by the way, will replace it.

Juan Hughes:John .

André Sumner:Yes. Yes. It's crazy to go from, you know, Severin to boom, without warning, suddenly Kirby writes and puts the whole thing together.

All classic war fans. Yes. They're all up in arms, you know, that's terrible. Right. But,

Juan Hughes:There was a subplot about, I think, Captain Storm's missing girlfriend. Yes. And that's what everyone seemed to be focusing on.

André Sumner:Sorry, just rubbish, just ignored all continuity. And it was essentially on hiatus until these guys came back. But the interesting thing about Canada is that for years I didn't realize [00:53:00] that for a long time. I assumed, oh, you know, this guy was in the military. He's actually the only one in the war books, he was never served, you know, he just came up with this kind of fun formula to create the books.

You know, Cuba was a soldier, everybody was, he wasn't. But therefore, although he is Caribbean, he is very extreme. There's an absolute level of emotional reality to it, you know? AND,

Juan Hughes:and just practical reality. I used to do those little one or two page gear reviews on the back that were so historically accurate.

You don't put historically accurate Jack Kirby in the same sentence very often, but that was, that was.

André Sumner:was, yes I agree. I agree, mate. And with, let's go back to Captain America for a second, what were your other favorite Captain America creative executions?

Juan Hughes:He, he, nobody will be above Martin Grunewald.

People throw a lot of crap at it, but it took over [00:54:00] from that book. I think we issued 308 and wrote it almost to the end before Mark Wade came along and ignored Cat Wolf. We will. He ignores the superior strategy where she transforms into a woman. Take the ridicule out of it or let it in. What was ridiculous Kirby?

That was kind of silly. This is the guy who gave us USAA agent John Walker crossbones breaking the flag. As a fan of Captain America, which was Kirby's intrigue of action, suspenseful moments and Indiana Jones-style adventure, the Martin Room Wall delivered month after month after month after month. You know, and I do, he doesn't get enough respect as probably the pre-eminent Captain America author behind it, Angle Heart.

You know, that ankle heart trail is classic. It's G with the exception of Gurrumul, you can't touch it. [00:55:00] It's not a mistake that the first two stories keep getting replaced by Grunewald and Inglehart keeps dropping out because you have an idea of ​​why Steve Rogers is Captain America no matter what they do.

I love Sam Wilson, your cap. I love you, you know, all different changes. Steve Rogers is Captain America. You cannot separate the two. can I give you. I can give you the load outputs.

André Sumner:Yes. I have a lot to say on the subject and that's what you're already saying, because it fascinates me for several reasons.

So please continue. I'm, I'm dying to hear this,

Juan Hughes:After Kirby's run, Stan Lee and Jean Colin Yon his brute men. Everything is fine. You know, name a memorable story from that race. I challenge you. It might be

André Sumner:the only interesting thing about the halls is the Falcon's creation. You know, that's [00:56:00] maybe what I can't remember was Lee out of it for them?

Was it Roy Thomas' main colon?

Juan Hughes:I'll give you the Falcon. You know, in that sense, it's interesting that you bring that up because people always, the discussion of Lee is brought up as an enduring character that he created without Jack Kirby, or Steve left, you just named one or maybe it was Jean Cohen. you know if,

André Sumner:it was almost certainly Jenny Kelgrin.

Juan Hughes:I'm trying to get stamps after the trial. Yes. There is, there is one. And that's you got nerds listening to this podcast, right? Yes good. There was a point in Captain America #2 39, 2 or whatever. Just before Rogers 2 47 came out, those two forties, the 2 30, 2 46. It was filler after filler after I was [00:57:00] a kid and it was my favorite book.

And even I was like, what is going on with this book? It was definitely a low point. You had that classic Punisher cover in 2 41, but the story inside you opens up and it's Frank Switch. They are horrible, horrible stories with a little gem. And if you don't have that story, you should probably look it up and find it.

It's cheap. Two partners. I mean, it was David Anthony Craft who left us this week. Unfortunately, a character named Adonis. Yes, a very cool story. Look this. If you have this,

André Sumner:you, you did. What is almost unthinkable to me is that you mentioned the story that I haven't really read.

So I'm definitely going to look into that. this is great,

Juan Hughes:you can remember. There's Captain America fighting a guy. Who has a large piece of machinery. I looked it up in the eighties, melting boys, like

André Sumner:melting to cover there. You know, I definitely never read that book.

Juan Hughes:Really cool. Frank Miller covered.

But [00:58:00] you know, there were a lot of missed opportunities on Captain America. Steve Gerber. Who is probably one of my favorite writers came and went almost immediately after growing up in his hometown.

André Sumner:Oh man. That was awful. Yes, that was awful. I could not

Juan Hughes:What Steve, I love you, but you need help. Yeah, so I can go on and on about the captain,

André Sumner:Juanito. I'll tell you what, so that's what I love about everything you just said is that you named the only race in Captain America is your absolute favorite I've always put it in the category that it's my least favorite iteration of the captain. . America, brand Grunwald.

And you made me, I mean, I know how much of the DNA was used in Falcon when the soldier comes from Greenville, but you made me want to go back and read it, which is something that nobody [00:59:00] has ever done before

Juan Hughes:3 30, 2 a 3 53

André Sumner:defines Good. Sick

Juan Hughes:that? This is Captain America, US Agent Argh. And after that, there are good things.

There are, there are gems hidden in its streets and the poison is a good story. There are many unique things. It makes me miss the diamond back. Yes. I don't know if you know her. She was, she was Temera's girlfriend for almost a decade, and now she's like, you know, God beautiful.

André Sumner:A lot of. Yes. Basically inhabiting oblivion.

Honestly, hearing your enthusiasm for this is a little contagious. So why to me, me, me, you can't, you can't be a bigger Captain America fan than I am. You'll have a huge fan yourself, but certainly, yeah, you won't find anyone who's an English glove Captain America, as far as I've found out over the years, but, but for me other than that, you know, sort of like Simon and Kirby, you [01:00:00] you know, linking things that, careers that I really love.

One of the ones you mentioned above. I love that short seven or eight that burns your sternum. I love it Hello,

Juan Hughes:Who will let them out of the book?

André Sumner:It's crazy that they cover just ridiculous. So rude. It's so unnecessary that I remember being absolutely devastated when I heard they were leaving.

It's like, what the hell was going on? I thought so, I thought we would have the Fantastic Four, but in Captain America. And I really enjoyed Stern and Zack's books. I thought Zach was cool. I liked them. And so I was a huge fan. I was a huge fan of Wade and Garney in the first incarnation.

We will. I eat a lot

Juan Hughes:how I love Grunewald and praise. Wait and Garney was a breath of fresh air.

André Sumner:air. It was amazing.

Juan Hughes:We come from that, you know, Mark went so wrong with that cap armor [01:01:00] fighting opportunity in history. Oh yeah.

André Sumner:Well, I think basically for me, what happened is I think there are two iterations of Wade.

Garney, there's Wade Garney before that terrible, ridiculous interlude where heroes are instantly reborn into anything, and that's it, those comics. And you read it. I guess that didn't go away. We just stopped being one of the all-time great captains. The United States works unexpectedly, and now we have it for a year.

And then when Wade and Garney were brought in, I was like, yeah, fine. This is, this is the last, an act of great common sense, but I think the charm was gone when they returned. The second time around, it was never, ever on the same level as the original story. They were

Juan Hughes:running They were in front of everyone, the pace, they were going to go through it, a winners ribbon and someone, someone tripped him and, you know, they had to catch up and they didn't, it was a shame.

I think the second race you are [01:02:00] mentioning. I go on, I always forget about it. And it's not fair to him. Dan Jurgens had a great run on volume two of the vault, where he wrote and drew. And it was, it brought, I think it brought Donna Maria from the Caribbean era. And it was, modernized, but still slam bam.

André Sumner:Yeah, I think Jurgens is one of those guys who doesn't really understand his Jew. Because he is, he's an amazing traveler. It seems that they are cheating you on the destination price, but it is extremely reliable. I don't think he ever covered nuts and bolts fun. And if you go back and read something like booster gold, that's a book that shouldn't work.

I don't think so, but actually. It's tremendous fun. You know, it's just good comics month after month, very competent. The other thing that fascinates me and the thing that really attracts me is going back to Capitán America much after Wade and Garney returned to [01:03:00] the volume of time in the book, it was then despite my love for the character.

Pre-medical Cat falls into the classification of, okay, Cap is my favorite character, but I just can't get him. Right. And these books are so weak. I don't want to read them. And I've had that experience with many other superheroes. I'm sure you did too, but what drew me back and what drew me back to the wonder actually was the brewer's acting room that the comic book guys worked with years before I worked on the forbidden planet , to Vermont and all that.

The guys who made Leah native to God, I came one day, look, I'm looking for a new mainstream book to read. I just finished X and I'm done. And I want to have, you know, a DC book or a Marvel book on the list, which do you think is better? Yep, you have to read what precooking is doing in Captain America.

It's like 24 and the Marvel universe, which I thought was, you know, this was it, I know it's a description that came from Brubeck himself, but he was dead. Right. By the time I started to reply, it was like, damn [01:04:00]. This is Captain America. This is the way I want to be. I read it. He killed

Juan Hughes:Jack Monroe, nomad, and I wasn't crazy.

André Sumner:He brought

Juan Hughes:come back to life The biggest taboo. Yes. And I loved it. Yes. So yeah, that Brewbaker race is probably the last time I really liked a cap. I held back, you know, I think Nick Spencer finally cracked me up with the whole hydro thing. i was like oh

André Sumner:Well, we're on the same page. My eye, the heart, that thing, the whole, is a book that just never should have happened.

it's totally useless

Juan Hughes:again, it was part of a bigger arc and there would be a resolution, but you got it, never be a nazi. Never, never, never, never, never, never. Never.

André Sumner:Because even if it's an overarching narrative, you don't want these books to be taken over by that lunatic fringe. And it's because these panels exist and you can use Sean in context to have that narrative first.

I think that's the problem with doing [01:05:00] this. And that's why I think it was a very ill-advised thing to do, especially when it comes to fucking Captain America, who, you know, was created by two of the most famous Jewish comic book creators of all time. What, it's a Nazi fight. Why the hell would you do that?

Juan Hughes:Was there an editor involved?

I mean, I don't understand. And we saw Cap break it. The schedule before we saw it. Suspenseful stories. When the red Skol tried to hypnotize him this year, he didn't even show the American general's clothes. We saw that with the great director, you know, that story, he, he, it doesn't work on Steve Rogers.

Sorry, don't do this. I have to look back. I know that Tanisha has supposedly had a great career. I have them. I can't bring myself to go back. Me, me, me so old. Andre. I'm so funny, I open these books and I'm like, the X-Men have their own island. And it's [01:06:00] I just can't. I mean I, I yearn for the old

André Sumner:dias.

Yes. However, it is quite true. I mean, what awaits you is and that's why I don't usually read the adventures of the great heroes of the two great companies, as much as I love them. I'm a huge Batman fan. As much as Captain America can use the massive Spider-Man. But I like to read definable series of things with a beginning, middle and end without too much bleeding from the universe too.

That's the other thing that I, as a kid, loved the fact that Spider-Man was fighting on a rooftop in Manhattan and Thor's beautiful pass. I loved that, but in the world we live in now, the main reason I don't read X-Men comics anymore is that massively soap opera-like narrative they have.

It's too much for me and the crossings kill my pleasure. you know you can't

Juan Hughes:jump in and you know, it's so unfriendly. And another thing that tells you how much these iconic characters have strayed [01:07:00] from their original paths, there's a very popular person from YouTube comics that I won't name who made a video this week where he's talking, You know, there's a classic Spider-Man story.

You know, this one where he's wearing the symbiote costume, he goes up to Reed, Richards finds it's a lot. Right. Then they take it off and you know, he's in his underwear. So they get a fantastic set of four and a paper bag on top. Yes. And this YouTuber is commenting on it. This is the most of the ordinary Spider-Man story.

It makes him look stupid, but no, this is him, this is Peter Parker. That's exact.

André Sumner:Oh. And it's also kind of a metaphorical reference to the Bushmen. Anyway, you know, it's like, come on, it's ticking the boxes. This is exactly what defeats the bug. It's exactly the kind of thing that happens too. Y

Juan Hughes:It's meant to be, it's meant to be fun. Spider-Man ne I don't know if you [01:08:00] are a younger audience, you don't know that Spider-Man should be a humor book.

It's deadly serious. He used a crack sage when he was fighting the Hawk doc. He wasn't married to a supermodel. It's just so sad to see how far we are from the road.

André Sumner:Yes. I couldn't agree more. And we have, we have Ark very well, which I'd like to talk about John, who also, in addition to his incredibly successful record career, is actually very active in the YouTube streaming and podcast space.

As if I had my cell phone. Could you tell us about the different podcasts and YouTube shows you have of course.

Juan Hughes:In terms of music, I produce with Rich Mehan the Rhino podcast, every Wednesday on interviews with different artists, he just runs the gamut. One week. We have Graham Nash next week we have Debbie Gibson.

So there's something for everyone on the Rhino podcast. I also co-host a totally [01:09:00] eighties show with Lindsey Parker of Yahoo Entertainment. Totally eighties. Just what 10 says, where you talk about the eighties, let's get to the bottom of it. We just made one of the two parts. I mean Prince Protected, where I defended the Apollonia Six album as being better than the Vanity Six album.

So if that floats you, it's a podcast. And then I have Bronze and Modern Gods, which is the consummate podcast, as with Richard, my best friend of 30 years. And we complain about comics, just like you. And I've just done this for the last 30 minutes and that's every Monday and Friday.

André Sumner:Fantastic. And all these shows, if you haven't found any more ready made, you can find links to them in the show notes for this episode. And that seems to me, John, a good place to end this particular conversation. Thank you so much for telling me about your extremely interesting career at Rhino and on the music side.

And also thanks for sitting down and talking about Captain [01:10:00] America for half an hour, which I could do for three hours. Y

I figured that was it, my teammate, but he was, he was very interested. Some of his music career stories. I had never heard that before and I was fascinated by how you went from being an announcer in the army to doing what you do now, which is such an interesting journey. Yes,

Juan Hughes:I almost unicorn, I

André Sumner:think.

Yes absolutely. Well said. And on that note, you take care of yourself. Johnny, it's great to see you're taking care of yourself and thanks for coming on the show. It's been great talking to you. Thank you.

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